tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post113016396506333830..comments2023-11-30T02:30:42.825-08:00Comments on E a r t h G o a t: The War on TourismGrendelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06664099783685963708noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130429345032889672005-10-27T09:09:00.000-07:002005-10-27T09:09:00.000-07:00I don't doubt that the Dutch are still way more li...I don't doubt that the Dutch are still way more liberal in their laws than we are, but I don't really think that the New York Times is out to portray The Netherlands as an example of tolerance gone wrong. After all, Judy Miller wasn't on that beat. Right-wing blogs may have that message, but I don't think the NYT international desk is all over it. If anything, it could be a reaction to overly glowing coverage in the past, resulting in too big a swing the other direction, as these things seem to tend to go.<BR/><BR/>That old situation you describe is really kind of nuts. Just as I deride the conservative goofballs who think that a total lockdown of the country and loss of civil rights is the only way to keep this place safe, I also think a dose of common sense would come in handy for some of these exceptionally loose asylum laws in Europe (specifically the Netherlands and the UK). I mean, of COURSE people will take advantage of systems like that, and even the most cheerful taxpayer might get a bit ruffled by that sort of thing. If they're able to tighten up the system rationally and in advance of any crisis occurring, then that is ideal. But that unfortunately doesn't seem to be a strength of governments, especially the Disunited States of W. <BR/><BR/>On another, semi-related note, I can hardly wait to see what nutjob gets nominated for SCOTUS now. Sheesh.SERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373736323966370971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130424172187344412005-10-27T07:42:00.000-07:002005-10-27T07:42:00.000-07:00SER, yes, that is what I was expecting, because th...SER, yes, that is what I was expecting, because that's the only thing about NL that has appeared in the American media for the past few years. Ooh, look, tsk tsk, the Dutch were wrong to be so tolerant! Because Van Gogh's descendant was slain by a Muslim and they don't like that! Then somebody burned a mosque! That must mean the Dutch have seen the error of their ways and have joined our moralistic warmongering and will surely be throwing their prostitues in jail soon and repealing national health care and giving out school vouchers while dismantling public education! That's the extent of our media's interest in Holland.<BR/><BR/>And a piece of it is true, they made some adjustments to their immigration laws. These adjustments bring their inclusion policies from 10,000% as liberal as ours to about 9000%. For example, you used to be able to buy a plane ticket from Morocco, fly to Holland, find an abandoned building, claim squatting rights, sign up for national health care, get on the dole, and sit back and watch the checks roll in to the address where you don't pay rent. Moreover, if you then moved back to Morocco, YOU GOT TO KEEP YOUR DUTCH HEALTH CARE COVERAGE. That is how a Dutchman put it to me. So now you have to go hrough more hoops to squat. You can't keep that health coverage, you have to learn Dutch when you become a resident, not as many people are allowed in every year.... and that's about the extent of the famous "death of Dutch tolerance." Otherwise, the place is still astonishingly liberal in every conceivable way, as it always has been.Grendelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06664099783685963708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130422837347219882005-10-27T07:20:00.000-07:002005-10-27T07:20:00.000-07:00Haven't (hasn't?) the Netherlands been having lots...Haven't (hasn't?) the Netherlands been having lots of tumult lately re: immigration? The Theo van Gogh killing, the Somali-born lawmaker who's under constant death threats, a backlash against lenient asylum and immigration policies, etc.? I feel as if the NYT has been full of such articles that I vaguely skim on my search for content about what really matters: Will my boyfriend Patrick Fitzgerald kick some White House ass?<BR/><BR/>There was an article on tiny cars in the NYT yesterday, incidentally, including the Smart. The Smart apparently has yet to make any money (it has never sold enough cars to cover even development costs). Daimler Chrysler is deciding this year whether to enter the US market, which will require making adaptations so the car complies with safety standards.<BR/><BR/>Informatively yours,<BR/>SERSERhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12373736323966370971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130352821023940522005-10-26T11:53:00.000-07:002005-10-26T11:53:00.000-07:00Agreed, Grendel, that it's a big fruit salad and A...Agreed, Grendel, that it's a big fruit salad and America, more and more, is like that one, nasty, rotten grape that throws everything off. And agreed that our current administration is the most backward we've ever had. Our various differences from other first world nations are no excuse for the short-sightedness and arrogance of Bush & Co.<BR/><BR/>When I referred to population, though, I didn't mean density as much as sheer numbers. According to the CIA factbook, the US population is 295 million. The nearest to that of the countries you name is Canada, at a mere 32 million. Ireland clocks in at a paltry 4 million. I'm just going on gut here, but I'm guessing that the bigger and more diverse your population, the harder it is to build consensus and implement major change. And the more complex problems and conundrums you face.<BR/><BR/>And that's just people. What about GDP? What about commercial revenues? Can the Netherlands really be compared to the US when you're talking about corporate influence? We're an immigrant nation built on the promise of free enterprise to a greedy extent (pilgrims shmilgrims; they came 100 years after planters started developing Virginia). We're also a nation built on slavery -- a mistake whose racial and economic percussions we still feel today.<BR/><BR/>As for geography, do Australia and Canada really have better transportation policies than the US? We're all big old frontier-tamed, Manifest destiny nations. Aren't the majority of all three countries' towns, rural areas, and sprawling cities more suited to (bigger-than-a-breadbox) cars than the compact and close-together towns and cities of Europe? Maybe so. <BR/><BR/>Ah well, we could go on drawing parallels and making contrasts forever, but I suspect the truth is the arguments on the ramifications would require volumes, not posts. And lord knows I'm not expert enough to make those arguments. Anyway, we're essentially in agreement on the larger, more important point: George W. Bush is a big fat weenie head!!Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15041039260443501706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130333001326021892005-10-26T06:23:00.000-07:002005-10-26T06:23:00.000-07:00Roper, although I agree with your caution, and wou...Roper, although I agree with your caution, and would add that my post was a little excitable and simplistic, and that I tend to put on Europe-colored glasses every chance I get, I'm not sure your specific objections hold water.<BR/><BR/>It's true that both Ireland and NL are smaller and have higher population densities. NL is way up there, and Ireland's is about twice the pop density of the US. However, a similar comparison could be made to Canada and Australia, both huge countries with roughly one tenth the population density of the US. Both nevertheless managed to sign Kyoto, tax fuel to discourage, have better public transport, and so forth. They have sane environmental policies and histories more similar to ours. We can look to them for apple to apple policy comparisons, and when we do we still come up puzzlingly backward and idiotic.<BR/><BR/>As for the homogeneity, I grant you Ireland is overwhelmingly white and Catholic. But Holland is split religiously and has always been a haven for tolerance due to its choice to include people of all races and beliefs. Amsterdam, among others, has been an important international shipping port for half a millenium, and was especially attractive because of its progressive policies. Abroad, while Japan refused to open its society to Europeans, whom they rightfully distrusted, they made an exception for the Dutch and traded with them exclusively. The Dutch have always been open and practical, and it has served them well in business and trade for many centuries. They resemble us in many ways, and in fact are sometimes called "the Americans of Europe" because of their enthusiasm for commerce and business and trade and the entrepreneurial spirit. Yet somehow they manage to not let their religious fundamentalists and corporations shut out citizens from decision-making. As for history, sure it's different, but they did <BR/>gain independence from a foreign power (Spain) and establish a republic, too, so it's not totally different.<BR/><BR/>Point being, it's not so much apples to oranges as it is apples to oranges to grapes to cumquats to pomegranates and so on, but we are all fruit, and we are all becoming more interdependent and mixed up into a very large fruit salad, and I don't understand why America insists on rotting so much faster and spoiling the buffet for everyone. I'm not even sure that makes sense, but I've only had one cup of coffee so far.Grendelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06664099783685963708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130266910083889972005-10-25T12:01:00.000-07:002005-10-25T12:01:00.000-07:00Growing up, I always saw the Puritans as these nob...Growing up, I always saw the Puritans as these noble pioneers, but they were probably closer to the thumpers attempting to drag us back to the 17th century (culturally, at least). They were the folks who were so strict about various religious rules and regulations, the other people pushed them to another continent just to get them out of their hair. Maybe if we buy Antartica and set it up as a special Church 'n' State fornication zone, we could get some of these folks to move there.Brandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10484284471046027179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130252235435273352005-10-25T07:57:00.000-07:002005-10-25T07:57:00.000-07:00Sorry -- I didn't mean that to sound quite so prea...Sorry -- I didn't mean that to sound quite so preachy and humorless. I'm just increasingly wary of the liberal tendency here (and I do it myself, god knows) to compare ourselves to Europe when we're so different.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15041039260443501706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130251899934377542005-10-25T07:51:00.000-07:002005-10-25T07:51:00.000-07:00While I wholeheartedly agree with you, Grendel, th...While I wholeheartedly agree with you, Grendel, that in many ways, places like the Netherlands and Ireland are more enlightened than the U.S., in a way it's like comparing apples and oranges. <BR/><BR/>Both countries are tiny in both population and land mass compared to the U.S. and have much more culturally/racially/religiously/economically homogenous populations. Not to mention radically different histories from ours.<BR/><BR/>Certainly we can aspire to adopt some of their more progressive laws and outlooks, but a strict side-by-side comparison doesn't seem particularly relevant or productive. We're not even playing in the same ballpark.<BR/><BR/>We can look to Western Europe for inspiration, but the solutions we come up with need to reflect the unique reality of our own country.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15041039260443501706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130243425380760852005-10-25T05:30:00.000-07:002005-10-25T05:30:00.000-07:00The Tall Doc is very astute and humorous. I'm not ...The Tall Doc is very astute and humorous. I'm not even talking about Smart cars, though. The tiny cars I saw were more like golf carts. They make Smarts look like SUVs. I saw two women get into one, which almost defied belief, start it up, and pull out of their bicycle space. The engines are moped engines,according to one guy I talked to. When our pics get developed, I'll post one.<BR/><BR/>As for free and baked, it's true there is a Dutch cannabis subculture, as there is for every country. But in every age group, a smaller percentage of Dutch use cannabis than Americans, adding hypocricy to our failed prohibition experiment. As one Dutchman put it to me, "Yes, you can go to a shop here and buy a joint. But you cannot buy a gun to kill someone. In America, you can buy a gun, but not a joint. This makes no sense to us."Grendelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06664099783685963708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10113687.post-1130190668358996382005-10-24T14:51:00.000-07:002005-10-24T14:51:00.000-07:00I though Holland was the land of the free and the ...I though Holland was the land of the free and the home of the baked?<BR/><BR/>Bihari, I'm with you on the Smart. I think Mercedes is planning to bring them to the US.Brandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10484284471046027179noreply@blogger.com